April 16, 2005
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Well, I posted the following response to Teh_Rev today:
Well Habib,
Here’s the gist of my response to your typical rants against God. First, some of your accusations:
He’s pretty damn nasty a lot of the time
God can kill at any time for any reason
He unfairly killed Uzzah the ox cart driver
He Unmercifully killed those poor mocking kids – mauled by she-bearsThen you made typical references to Christian Hitler, Columbus’ Godly Hordes, etc.
I’d just advise you that you’re being led astray by two streams of intellectual shallowness.
First, I think you might not have the picture of God’s “meanness”
clearly enough. He’s way meaner than you think. Your
examples are wimpy mean compared to some others: The Noahic deluge; the
“clear the land” orders for Israel’s conquest of Canaan; the deliberate
offering of a delusion to those who don’t love, and therefore reject,
the truth. God actually created all things, so that He could
“harvest” a (small?) portion of the people He created out of the
whole. All the rest are dross, leftovers, destined for wrath,
hell, the pit. He even makes the case in Romans that that is
quite His prerogative, and who can question it? His argument is
“I made ‘em, I decide what to do with them” God is absolutely a
consuming fire, a being so holy that even the most righteous fall down
as dead when they see Him. But we mustn’t imagine that his
meanness is anything like ours. Our meanness rolls out of us
whenever we feel like it, regardless of the rightness or justice of our
cause. God’s meanness is absolutely subject to his righteousness
and justice. There never has been, nor never will be, an instance
of God executing judgement outside of His character of holiness.
Never. Likewise, there never has been, nor ever will be, an
instance of God not executing judgement when He “should.”Second, I think you might not have the picture of our (your AND my)
sinfulness clearly enough. Like most people, we make our sin out
to be fun, cool, justifiable, unimportant. We blame our
sinfulness on others, the time of day, the chemicals in our brains
(natural and artificial ones). “So, I’ve made a few mistakes
along the way” is our attitude, “nobody’s perfect.” Our modern
view of sin is so shallow and inconsequential that we feel quite free
to not only continue in it, but to multiply it. No big deal.But, at every point, when we sin we lead those around us astray.
Someday, writhing in hell, your friends and mine will cry out “why
didn’t you tell me the truth, why did you lie to me about
reality?” We think we’re loving with our friends, cuz we hang
together, have fun together, and drink, and play, and such. But
every one of us is responsible to acknowledge God by how we live our
lives, and to do so for the benefit of the witnessess of our
lives.So, we have not just a mean God, but a consuming fire of a God who will
absolutely, and totally punish sin. And we have, not just a small
problem with sin, but an incurable, fatal, intractible, disease called
sin.And that’s where the gospel comes in. This God, who very
*rightly* could condemn all men to the dross, has offered to forgive
our sinfulness, not by brushing it under the rug, but by taking on the
punishment for it for us.Make your worst case about God’s meanness. He’s worse than we think.
Make your best case about our sinfulness. We’re worse than we think.The “fires” of hell are a metaphor, probably representing nothing more
than the anguish of the nagging thoughts for eternity that each of us
had the opportunity and enough revelation to pursue God further, but
instead chose otherwise. We’ll each see what could’ve been, and
how we led our loved ones down the same path as us, and we’ll be
kicking ourselves in the butt for our stupidity. Forever.God IS good ALL THE TIME ALL THE TIME God IS Good.
Blessings on your search for truth, Rev. I’ve tried to respond respectfully, but clearly.
Comments (2)
I’ve found my truth. I am no longer on a search for it. If i’m wrong so be it at least i lived my life the fullest potential not letting anything hold me back from my true desires. and if nothing else i repent just before death cause hey jesus wrote a blank check with forgiveness. But if I am right and there is nothing after death those “god” following people have lost something. I guarantee you have passed up some potentially great experience becuase it wasn’t what a christian should do. You have bound yourself by laws that you can’t prove. I’ll be able to die with a clear conscience to myself with absolutley zero regrets because I didn’t live my life by someone else’s rule I lived for what I wanted.
I gladfully and willfully accept any future consequences in a “hell” for my sins. And for those I have led astray from the word of god and into sin I am glad. I have shown them a world of choice and freedom where they can do as they please.
If a god who created me wanted me to live a life where I would be miserable just to appease him well fuck that god, I won’t spend my days following rules that I can’t even be sure are his to live unhappily. Humans make mistakes, Meanings are lost in translation, People change things on purpose. How can you even know that your “holy text” the bible even portrays the word of god anymore? Many greek manuscripts that have gon directly from greek to english are difficult to understand because of the different language constructs and implied meanings. The bible has been translated many times over through multiple languages by people who didn’t always have the best intentions.
Religion is nothing more than control. Its a perfect scam. Its like a retirement package that never has to get paid out. Think back to fuedal times. In the middle ages people worked for their lords and their church which were closely intertwined. The peasents worked day in day out and would die at young ages of 30 from being over worked. They would work to give all they could create to their bishops and church officials often not keeping enought o feed themselves and their families. All the church had to do was promise that once they died they would go to a perfect place of ultimate bliss where all their dreams come true and they are happy forever. Best scam ever. The church never had to prove anything, never had to pay anything. It was slave labor based on a mythical place that can’t even exist. It was mind control pure and simple and still is today. Why do you think Jihad is so successful in the middle east? Promise them the “promised land” and they will do anything for it and once they are dead oh big deal they are gone sucks for them. The people in control got what they wanted.
well this is getting long so i’ll peace out for now. I don’t feel like typing out my speel on why heaven can’t exist.
lol oh and my real name is bryan not habib.